Barrick-Newmont Deal Puts Fourmile Valuation in Focus | Neil Adshead

Neil Adshead, Consulting Geologist at the Commodity Discovery Fund, joins Kitco Mining’s Digging Deep with Paul Harris to break down U.S. critical minerals policy, the Barrick-Newmont Nevada Gold Mines agreement, gold-sector capital returns, and AI’s growing push into mining.

Adshead says U.S. support for critical minerals can help bring attention and talent back to the sector, but he questions whether taxpayer money should be used to pick company winners. He says broader tax incentives and stronger mining schools would do more to rebuild long-term capacity. “I’d rather see the free market determine where the capital goes,” he said.

Newmont’s US$1.95 billion payment to Barrick under the Nevada Gold Mines agreement raises fresh questions about Fourmile’s valuation and Barrick’s planned IPO of its North American gold assets. Adshead says the deal could prove a long-term win-win, while major producers continue to return billions through buybacks and dividends. He also weighs whether Newmont and Barrick sold key assets too soon, Hercules Metals’ new leadership team in Idaho, and Mariana Minerals’ US$310 million raise as a software-first critical minerals company.

Recorded August 11, 2026.

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00:00 - Welcome and Headlines
00:31 - Trump Critical Minerals Push
01:28 - Picking Winners vs Free Markets
04:24 - Funding U.S. Mining Schools
08:51 - Barrick-Newmont JV Deal
09:53 - Fourmile Valuation Debate
14:08 - Buybacks and Capital Returns
17:36 - Did Majors Sell Too Soon?
21:01 - Gold Sector Health Check
23:58 - Hercules Metals’ New Team
26:43 - Mariana’s AI Mining Bet
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Disclaimer: The views expressed in this podcast are those of the author and may not reflect those of Kitco Metals Inc. The author has made every effort to ensure accuracy of information provided; however, neither Kitco Metals Inc. nor the author can guarantee such accuracy. This article is strictly for informational purposes only. It is not a solicitation to make any exchange in commodities, securities or other financial instruments. Kitco Metals Inc. and the author of this podcast do not accept culpability for losses and/ or damages arising from the use of this publication.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Kitco Mining, Digging Deep with Paul Harris.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello and welcome back to Kitco Mining's Digging Deep with me, Paul Harris, in which we take a closer look at some of the most interesting news items in the mining and exploration space. Today is Tuesday, the 11th of August, and joining me today is Neil Ad Head, consulting geologist at the Commodity Discovery Fund. Neil, welcome back to Kitco.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Thanks, Paul. Good to see you again. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

It has, and we've got a good one today. It's Big Boy Day Today with Trump, Barrack Mining, and Newmont, all featuring heavily in today's episode. Let's start with Donald Trump, who held another round table at the White House with mining industry leaders and announced over 2 billion US dollars in critical minerals and mining related projects, including $180 million in mining school investments. Investments will be made in bauxite, silicon carbide, scandium, boron, graphite, tantaline, nobium, and rare earth elements to help mitigate and reverse critical supply chain vulnerabilities and also bolster US industrial resilience. Robert Friedland was there and he said on X, we've been sleepwalking through many administrations, and this is a revolution that will just electrify the millions of people in the US that understand that everything you touch, we either mind it or grew it agriculturally. So this is critical to our national security. We're related with your support and we're going to use Yankee ingenuity to prove that we can dominate the supply chain again. Great words there from Robert Friedland. Neil, let's bring you in here. The Trump administration is being very focused on where it is putting government money to work. It's not blanket financing for the entire sector. To what extent do you see this as perhaps picking the best in class or even picking winners in the critical mineral space?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Yeah, I don't particularly. I mean, one way I think it's positive that the government is investing in uh in the mining sector per se, you know, in just generally, because I think it draws a lot of uh dedicated and also generalist eyeballs onto the sector. I'm not particularly happy maybe when the governments are putting money in specific companies. You know, how does how does the government know that that company is better than you know company B or company C that's sort of got a similar business plan? I think the the sort of wisdom of markets is is a better allocator of capital than the than the let's say the federal government. So, you know, my preference would be say for the government to you know provide like tax breaks for everybody in the sector to encourage lots of competition, lots of investment across the sector. You know, we don't really know which company is going to be the most successful, of say, you know, say there were 10 tungsten companies in the United States, for example. You know, we don't really know which one's gonna be the most successful. So rather than the government trying to use taxpayers' money to pick who's gonna be the winners, then I would prefer, you know, a more of a blanket financial approach that is not really dolling out taxpayers' money. Uh, I would prefer to see it as like some sort of tax benefit, tax credits, etc., and then the market can work out which are the best players.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

You'll the approach you suggest, Neil, would uh seem to uh stimulate perhaps more potential winners than just trying to isolate specific companies. Um, you know, going for a you know, if you lift the whole base, you can have more successes than if you target specific companies or specific projects.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah, definitely, yeah. Yeah, I I think that's the best approach. You know, we've seen that in many other sectors which the government has not uh dabbled in, let's say, such as tech. You know, the United States is very successful, but you know, maybe there's a thousand, there's two thousand tech companies at the at the sort of at the start of the boom in tech, and you don't really know which ones are gonna survive and which ones are gonna thrive. Uh it's better that the market works that out, you know, the sort of capitalist system works that out rather than the government trying to pick which particular companies are gonna are gonna succeed. Plus, by the government dolling out taxpayers' money like that, um, you know, it's a little bit open to let's call it uh for want of a better word, you know, corruption or that you know the money can go to certain places because people certain people have influence. Uh, I don't particularly like that approach either. I'd I'd rather see the uh free market determine uh where the capital goes.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Okay, thank you, Neil. I I think it was very interesting the president announcing $180 million to go into to mining schools. Um let's start at the top here, Neil. Why do mining schools need investment?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Um I think I think it's been an underfunded, let's call it, underfunded area of education, uh, probably across across the Western world, you know, in Canada as well as Australia, you know, those those countries, the UK as well, you know, they do have pretty good mining skills that have maybe been struggling a little bit for for many years. Um you do need that education base, you know, you want to encourage young people to come through into the into the industry. Um it's there's very specialized roles, you know, metallurgists and mining engineers and you know, mining geologists in the in the mining sector. There's not many places that actually provide the education in in Western societies. So I think it's very important that those institutions do provide some sort of government assistance to encourage more young people into the into the sector.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

During his comments, President Trump I think mentioned that last year the US only graduated 300 and something mining engineers. By comparison, he said China's graduated sort of two or three thousand mining engineers. So there's quite a disparity there. In in light with your previous comment about investing in projects, would you prefer to see this $180 million given in, let's say, scholarships to encourage more undergraduates to take programs?

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Uh that's one way of doing it. I think though I'd prefer to see the majority of the money go into actually go into educational institutions to bolster, you know, and strengthen those institutions. One, well, also to allow them to survive, but also to allow them to thrive and grow, you know, invest in uh high cost capital items that some of these uh institutions need in to educate people in the mining sector. So I I would prefer the majority of the money to go into the institution, and you will find that a lot of mining companies uh are happy to provide scholarships to entice uh young people into the mining industry and also maybe to encourage that individual to then join that mining company afterwards. You know, when I when I went through university many years ago, there was quite a lot of people there with scholarships from mining companies. Uh, that seems to have died away a little bit. I'm not really sure why. Um, but I think if you had very strong mining schools in, say, the United States, Canada, Australia, uh, and around the world, really, you would encourage a lot more people into the sector. Because, as you say, you know, with this with all this sort of critical minerals and the you know, electrification of everything, there's there's a lot of young, bright, smart people who are who are keen to get into the mining sector at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Talent is a critical and limiting issue in the industry. A lot of the discussion here uh focuses on the lack of undergraduates taking mining disciplines. We've just been mentioning that. But what about uh on on the faculty side? Um, I imagine there's also a lack of people to teach them, both because you know, people have been getting older and retiring. As you mentioned, the schools have been contracting. So I imagine the the teaching faculty have been contracting as well. Um, that's perhaps a more difficult thing to put into place, getting knowledgeable, experienced people into the mining schools to share their knowledge and to teach the next generation.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

I think you'll find maybe after 10, 20, 30 years in the field, let's say, working on mines, I think there's people getting to their 40s and 50s. Um, this is supposed to come in full circle to investing in the mining schools. I think you'll find there'd be uh quite a few people that'd be quite happy then to leave leave the bush, so to speak, you know, leave leave the mine site and work in a in a mining school in a population center for the remainder of their career, you know, relaying what they've learned in the field, but so long as those institutions are reasonably well funded, you know, so that's maybe another argument why the 180 million going into these mining schools is a good idea, because I think it would actually encourage experienced mining professionals who maybe didn't really want to be in the bush anymore uh to come back and teach in these in these institutions.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

That's a very interesting point. Well, and let's hope so. Let's move on to Barrack Mining, whose IPO of its North American assets looks set to proceed after the company reach an agreement with Newmont about their Nevada Gold Mines joint venture in Nevada. This will see previously excluded properties included in the joint venture going forward. These include Barracks Foremile and Newmont's Fiberline and Mike Developments. Newmont agreed to pay Barrack 1.95 billion US dollars as part of this agreement. The overall agreement is valued at about $4 billion, according to Barrack CEO Mark Hill during their second quarter financial conference call. And as part of this, Newmont will drop its disputes about how Nevada gold mines is being managed. The market initially hated this news, with Barrack initially dropping about 9%. As analysts viewed the deal as favoring Newmont. CEO Mark Hill, who will become the CEO of the uh North American Nevada once uh sorry, North American Barrack once that's IPO'd, he refused to give a breakdown of what that $4 billion in value was during the conference call. But with consensus putting four Mars value at $10 to $20 billion, Newmont's 38.5% share of that deposit would cost four to eight billion dollars. Um, Neil, giving almost two billion dollars in cash to its fierce rival um must have uh or must emotionally hurt for Newmont, but it seemed it got a better deal than perhaps some expected, given that it's able been able to vend in Fiberline and Mike for presumably a pretty good valuation.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Yeah, I mean Newmont is making a huge amount of money at the moment. I believe I think the forecast buyback of shares this year is something like eight billion US dollars. So to spend essentially two billion dollars and get 38, I think it was 38.5% interest in four mile, which is one of the you know biggest and best discoveries in in Nevada for a long time. It's a very large deposit. I think Newmont will feel like that's pretty good business. You know, it also feels like Barrack maybe, you know, they were looking for this uh dispute with Newmont to go away over the over the NGM over the over the JV, uh, and also to get approval there for to list uh Barrick North America. Uh I think Newmont needed to provide some kind of approval there. So I think it's probably ultimately a bit of a feels like a win-win for everybody. I think everybody comes out of this uh feeling like they are now where they wanted to be. But I think the the price that 1.95 billion, I think most people felt that should have been maybe double, double that. That's why uh Barracks uh share price took a bit of a hit.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Um do you think that uh Newmont was perhaps able to leverage Barracks North American IPO against it to reduce the price for four mile in exchange for for Newmont's consent to allow the IPO to proceed?

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'm I'm kind of guessing uh, you know, we're not we're not in the room here in the negotiations. Uh I don't fully understand the intricacies of the deal, but it wouldn't surprise me. And and again, uh it feels now like everybody's both sides are coming out of this, um, both sides are probably happy. You know, longer term it, you know, Barrack's share price hit is kind of a short-term thing. I think you'll find it'll it'll kind of rebound. Um, and maybe in a month everyone everyone will have forgotten about it and everyone's moving on. And you know, the uh JV relationship's now cordial, Barrack's moving forward with its uh planned IPO of the North American assets, and Newmont now has exposure to 38.5% of four mile. So um, yeah, I think ultimately long term, probably a win-win for everyone. It just feels like a little bit of a short-term, maybe slap in the face for uh for a barrack, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Okay, no wonder that uh Barrack CEO Mark Hill claims the relationship with Newmont has dramatically improved since he took over in uh what the third quarter last year. Neil, most people everybody's heard of Formal, Barracks Formile. It's an amazing discovery, he's got a very good PEA on it. Most people have never heard of Newmont's fiberline and mic developments. Um, any ideas what they are and why we're only hearing about them now?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

No, I I I've heard of Mike, but it was a long time ago, and I've not heard Newmont talk about it recently. I've not seen it in any presentations from Newmont. So I suspect, you know, like most of these majors, they have uh a cupboard full of of assets that there's maybe just polishing off a little bit now because the the gold price is is uh highest it's ever been, uh well close to all-time highs, let's say. Um maybe that was a little bit of a sweetener that Newmont felt like they had to add to it, you know, and from from for the JV, I suppose it makes the JV slightly more valuable because it's now got two extra assets in it. Uh, you know, Barrick was adding an asset and uh Newmont's added two assets, so uh but that's kind of a long way of saying no, I don't know really anything about those assets. I I had a quick poke around, I couldn't really find much about them either. Maybe I'd have to delve into Newmont's disclosure from years ago in some old MDNA to see what whether there's a resource estimate on those two projects, but I I don't know anything about them.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Okay, good. So it's not just me who hasn't heard of those uh projects before. Um Barrack said it would return the proceeds of the IPO. Um, it's gonna IPO a 10% stake to its shareholders. Uh Barrack certainly doesn't need the money as Newmont and Barrack have the biggest cash piles in the gold sector. Newmont has $9 billion in cash, Barrack $6 billion in cash on their balance sheet at the close of the second quarter, and that after returning a boatload of cash to their shareholders through dividends and buybacks. Um, Neil, you you referred to sort of Newmont's dividend payout uh the moment ago. Um let's talk a little bit more about that. Um, Newmont's repurchased six billion dollars in stock uh in its current program and is aiming to repurchase another six billion dollars in stock. Um, is this Newmont yelling at the market that it thinks its stock is very, very undervalued?

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Um I'd have to say yes, otherwise, why would they be buying their stock back? Um, I you know, thinking maybe slightly cynically, uh I think it's relatively easy to buy back stock. Uh, you know, it's just really one guy telling a trader to you know go in the market with some with a sort of a trading rule to buy back the stock. Um obviously buying back stock helps to either stop the share price going down or it helps push the share price up. Uh, a lot of KPIs for insiders and you know board members are driven by share price performance. So, again, a bit of a cynical comment there that that's actually helping insiders maybe get better compensation. But an interesting little wrinkle with buybacks in the United in the United States is that there's actually a 1% tax on a buyback. So if Newmont, for example, buys about five uh five billion dollars worth of stock, it has to send fifty million dollars to the IRS. Um, so you kind of wonder is that is that a particularly good use of capital? Um, but it also says I think I think it also says that you know, Newmont probably has uh a wardrobe or a cupboard full of old assets that at higher gold prices they probably will start to look a bit more you know valuable and maybe they'll bring them on. But these companies they can only really build one or two mines at once. So yeah, a lot of people think that maybe with the extra money they should be building four or five mines at the same time, but but I just think technically that they you know they actually can't do that. So the best thing they can do with their money, and I also think there's a lot of pressure still from shareholders who've been doing this for many years, is to actually keep returning as much capital as possible to shareholders. Um, so I think there's still a strong push from shareholders to return capital rather than focus strongly on growth.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

I think there is an argument that uh returning so much capital to shareholders and particularly the buybacks perhaps shows a lack of imagination by the companies. But uh that obviously has to be tempered by the fact, as you mentioned, Neil, that uh a company can only really build one big mine at a time just because of the limits of its technical capacity and other things. Um, but we're in an industry with um you know where companies are consuming their resources, they're depleting resources. Production amongst the major gold miners has been flat, if not trending down. So it does seem that something more drastic perhaps needs to be undertaken. And with such large balance sheets, should there be more big MA moves afoot?

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Well, Newmont's an interesting example, and I'm not I'm not picking on Newmont here, but when Newmont bought Newcrest or a merged with Newcrest, I think I think they created like a ranked list of of all the mines. And I seem to remember there was a presentation where the boss at the time came out and said, Well, the top eight mines are going to get the capital, and the remainder really are not gonna get any money, therefore we're gonna sell them. And they went through this sort of you know long process, it took two or three years, and they sold Telfer, Mussel White, Dome. Um, and they basically sold six assets: Cripple Creek, and all of those assets have gone on to actually almost be company makers for everybody who bought them, you know, Greatland, Orla, um, Discovery, you know, SSR's done very well at Cripple Creek, you know. But to be fair to Newmont, they sold them just before the gold price essentially doubled from whatever it was, two to three thousand to you know five thousand. Now, looking back, and I suppose you would argue should have should Newmont have been a bit more optimistic about their outlook on the gold price. Now, they're they're returning whatever the number is, five, six, seven, eight million billion dollars a year to uh to shareholders, maybe that money now could have been invested in Dome, in Kribble Creek, in Telfur, and right now Newmont would be producing probably well, you know, I'm just making numbers up here, you know, maybe eight, nine million ounces per year uh at a pretty strong margin, and be making ten to fifteen billion dollars a year with those mines they already owned. So it's kind of an interesting thought exercise what Newmont would look like today if they hadn't sold those six mines. Uh, you know, so to for Newmont to now and go and buy buy mines to make a difference to their portfolio, uh I'd almost argue there's not many mines out there that actually exist right now that would make that much of a difference to Newmont. So these these majors are generating a lot of money. Um when you look back at any of I mean Barrick did the same, you know. I was in Kalgooli last week, and to see the super pit now, it's got, I think it's 15 million ounces in reserve, 42 million ounces in resource. You know, this this was owned by the majors and they've sold it and it's been a company maker for Northern Star. So if I suppose that that's a long way of saying if the majors would have just believed in the gold price and kept these assets and invested in them sensibly and wisely, uh these companies would now, these these majors would now be in a much healthier position than what they're actually in, even though they are in a very healthy position.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

I I think I would definitely agree with you there, Neil. Newmont, for example, has had more than five billion dollars in cash on its balance sheet for at least the last five years. I think Barrack as well. And with all of these assets they've divested, you know, Barrack divested Hemlo, for example, all of the juniors that have bought them, the first thing they've done is really ramped up exploration to find new answers, to extend life and perhaps even grow production. And they're all doing that very successfully. So a bit more imagination by Barrack and Newmont, a bit more funding of the exploration projects there, and they perhaps could have kept these operations within them and uh experienced growing production rather than perhaps being in this stagnant situation and limited growth opportunities. Um, that's enough of a rant there. Let's move on a little bit. Overall, gold producers have returned more than $14 billion US so far in 2026 with buybacks outpacing dividends. Um, and these represent more than 85% of the free cash flow they have generated, with some producers returning more to their shareholders than the free cash flow they're generating. Um, Neil, looking at the sector as a whole, what do you think is good about this and what potentially concerns you?

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Well, I think it's good because shareholders have demanded uh return of capital in the in the mining sector, especially gold mining, for quite a long time. And in my almost 25 years now on the buy side, I I've never seen a time like this. I again I was at I was over in Kalgooli there at the digs and dealers conference, sitting through presentation after presentation, and every single producer. Every single gold producer I heard their pitch, even the small ones, you know, I've never seen such a large collection of gold mining companies be in such a healthy financial position, and quite a lot of them have got sort of organic growth that's fully fully funded from their own balance sheet. Um, yeah, so the set this so the sector's in in very good health, even with all this money being returned. Uh, you know, one one challenge with the mining business, maybe is one way to say it, is that if you you know, if you throw all your dollars into into new production, generally that new production can quite often be lower quality production, and then you can you can kind of flood the market a little bit with excess supply and then you can kill your own market. So I think I think the gold sector's been reasonably uh restrained. I th I think the the growth in primary gold production is still averages sort of one to two percent a year, and it's been that it's been at that level for a long time. So to me, the the sector, the sector's very healthy at the moment. We're not seeing any kind of crazy MA, we're not seeing uh we're not seeing super low quality mines being built and brought on. Uh I think people have been very um conservative over how much they're spending on Capex. So yeah, so so far it seems like a very orderly, you know, the gold price going up and how the miners have reacted has been very orderly, and most of them are making excellent margins right now. And uh shareholders should be happy. So I think if you look at a collective, if you look at a group of gold mining companies now and a group of tech companies in terms of their their sort of margins, I think you find that the gold miners are a lot more profitable at the moment on a on a sort of margin basis percentage than than a lot of the tech companies.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Um in line with your comments about the sector, perhaps never being in a healthy position, just looking at my spreadsheet here. The the leading North American gold companies and mid-tiers got about, let's say, 20, sorry, $35 billion of cash on their balance sheets and uh $18 billion of debt. So the balance sheets are very healthy. Um let's move on to exploration. Hercules Medals has appointed the former Arizona Sonora and Copper Company senior management team led by George Ogilvy, who will be president and CEO of the company, to lead the Levian, Leviathan Copper, Silver, Popry Discovery in Idaho. Um, Neil, this was a very interesting uh news item, I think, because uh bringing in a new CEO is not uncommon, but moving in a whole team that's um less common in the exploration space. And again, this seems to perhaps be a definite statement of intent on the part of Hercules Medals to really uh take Leviathan forward.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah, as uh I thought it was an interesting move because um I mean I I I know George Ogilvy, I've met him many times through through many conferences, and we've uh I know he was involved in the past in the old Ming Mine in Newfoundland and Kirkland Lake, and then with uh the old Rubicon asset at Phoenix in in Red Lake and then Arizona Sonoran. And you know, George's background is is sort of mine engineering, and he you know he tends to like to go into all mines and help help turn them around and you know get get get the old mines either working or or into into uh development stage. So it's definitely an unusual move here because it it is basically still a Hercules is still an expiration story. Yeah, so nice nice to see a team stay together like that. Clearly, that there's a lot of loyalty there to George, and um I wish them well. And you know, just from a disclosure point of view, I'm I'm chairman of a private uh junior which has a piece of ground right next to Hercules. So I'm I'm hoping George is very successful there, and uh a nice relationship can form between the two companies in the future. Um, and I look forward to crossing paths with George at some point in the future and hearing his vision for for the uh Leviathan property in in Idaho.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Neil, you make a valid point. George and his team are perhaps better known as developers, and as you mentioned, Hercules and Leviathan is very much still an exploration uh play. So, how good a fit really do you think this is?

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Um time will tell. Uh, you know, I I have a lot of faith in George. Uh, he's done very well in every role he's been in in the last uh 15 years or so that I've that where I've crossed pass with him. Um so I wouldn't bet against George having success on this asset. It is a bit earlier stage than than he's been in before. You know, there were old mines. Um so this one is not an old mine, it's uh basically uh I'd call it an advanced exploration stage project. But um yeah, knowing George, I have every faith that he's gonna do a good job there.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Well, let's hope so. Congratulations to all concerned there. Uh Neil, let's end with a bit of an oddity. Mariana Minerals is raising 310 million US dollars from a bunch of venture capital funds to fund critical minerals exploration and development. Mariana says it is a software-first, vertically integrated minerals company focused on supplying the minerals critical to modern energy, AI, and defense technologies. Um, I've been suggesting for a long time that mining companies should perhaps rebrand as technology companies due to the amount of technology they increasingly use at every stage of uh at every process. But OMG. Um Neil, this sounds like the most woke company description I've ever read. Um what are your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Um I've had a bit of a look at Mariana. Yeah, there's don't seem to have that much mining experience. They it seems to be like a tech AI company which believes uh, you know, it's sort of jumping on the critical minerals, United States security of supply kind of angle, uh, believing that it can apply AI to all aspects of you know mineral exploration, mineral development, mine operation, mine closure, and just basically do a good job or a better job or more efficient job than the people who've been working in the industry for for decades. Um, you know, I I look at the biography of the people, and they are really you know tech bros out of Silicon Valley. Uh I wish them well. I'm gonna follow it quite closely. You know, the fact these guys can just sort of pull a rabbit out of the hat with a series B raise of 310 million US dollars, you know, without really having anything and not really disclosing what they've got. I had a bit of a poke around the website. Um, yeah, it's it's it's fascinating. Um time will tell, I suppose. And I again all I can do is wish them well. It's gonna be an interesting one to follow, similar to uh Cobold, which raised, I think, $1.5 billion for sort of sort of a similar, similar scenario. Uh I hope they can learn a lot by applying AI to various aspects of the business, and if they are successful, then it's gonna benefit everybody working in the mining business.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

I I looked at the company uh start of the year and uh saw the CEO give a presentation in which he lamented the fact that the mining sector is backwards, it's pretty much using Stone Age technology, which back then I thought was really odd given the amount of investment the leading miners, you know, Barrick, Newmont, BHP, etc., Rio Tinta, they invest an incredible amount in technology to both improve performance, optimize operations, and of course enhance safety. So I think it's uh perhaps a little bit naive, and as you suggest, perhaps uh the tech bro view of the mining sector. Um, I'm also curious as to what they potentially mean about being a software first company because obviously, even at the exploration stage, uh a lot of software is used, whether it's Leapfrog to help model a deposit or verify to you know do similar things. AI models are now increasingly being used to help process data and generate targets from that. So it I'd be curious to see or understand what they think their advantage is over the software tools that are currently being used by the sector.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Yeah, my understanding is they're applying AI to you know, you know, the mining sector, mining and mineral processing and mineral exploration, there's lots of let's call them decision-making points and um optimization steps. And the argument, I think their argument is AI can make those decisions faster and more intelligent than let's say the average human being that's working in the mining sector. So I'm sure we're gonna learn a lot by what they do, but at the end of the day, mining, you know, it's like plumbing and being electricians, you know, you still have to put a human uh at the coal phase quite often, or or at least operating the equipment even even remotely. Uh, a lot of this stuff can't be done yet by uh computers. So it's gonna be I I think we are gonna learn something through what they do, but again, you know, we've seen these we are going to change the world stories so many times that never really change the world. Uh they provide incremental uh knowledge leaps, uh knowledge gains. So yeah, let's let's let's maybe revisit these guys in five years, see how they've spent their total of raised so far of 400 million US dollars and see if they've got anything to show for that. Because I think if you gave uh 40 million dollars to 10 high-quality exploration companies and sent them off around the world, I think one or two of them would come back with a discovery, and I think that's probably where I would rather put my money.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

I I appreciate that having a new set of eyes from a different sector can be very, very beneficial. But uh, you know, heads up from Ariana, all the mines that I've visited recently, they're all using or starting to use AI to optimize their process control. So um doesn't necessarily seem to be any uh distinguishable advantage there. Um that's it for this week. Neil Ached, thank you very much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

No problem. Thanks, Paul, until next time.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Until next time. And of course, if you like what you see, don't forget to hit that subscribe button. I'm Paul Harris, digging deep for Kitco Mining.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

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