Tech Cracks and Rotation beckon for Goldcos | John Feneck

John Feneck, Founder and CEO of The Feneck Commodities Report, joins Kitco Mining’s Digging Deep with Paul Harris to break down a volatile stretch for mining equities, precious metals and critical minerals.

Feneck says gold, silver and copper remain in a bull framework, but mining stocks are still being pressured by summer trading volumes, the Iran conflict, Fed uncertainty and capital crowding into tech and AI. With the HUI down sharply since March 1 and many juniors hit even harder, he says investors need to separate broken charts from painful corrections in a sector where metal prices are still holding key levels.

The mining news cycle is also turning back toward supply security. Feneck calls new U.S. defense restrictions on tungsten from China, Russia, North Korea and Iran “super bullish” for U.S. tungsten equities, arguing that the country remains far behind China in rebuilding domestic supply. He also weighs the U.S. processing bottleneck, Donlin Gold, Barrick’s investment in Kingfisher Metals, New Pacific’s Carangas PEA in Bolivia, and why majors may need to pay real premiums to secure junior assets.

Learn more about John Feneck’s conference here: https://topshelf-partners.com/

Recorded July 23, 2026.

Disclaimer: The views expressed in this podcast are those of the author and may not reflect those of Kitco Metals Inc. The author has made every effort to ensure accuracy of information provided; however, neither Kitco Metals Inc. nor the author can guarantee such accuracy. This article is strictly for informational purposes only. It is not a solicitation to make any exchange in commodities, securities or other financial instruments. Kitco Metals Inc. and the author of this podcast do not accept culpability for losses and/ or damages arising from the use of this publication.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Kitco Mining, Digging Deep with Paul Harris.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hello and welcome back to Kitco Mining's Digging Deep with me, Paul Harris, in which we take a closer look at some of the most interesting news items in the mining space. Today is Thursday, July the 23rd, and joining me today is John Fenwick of Fennec Consulting. John, welcome back to Kitco.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Thanks a lot, Paul. Great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

It's uh a scorching hot summer, John. So how's summer treating you down there in Arizona?

SPEAKER_02 0:30

110 every day, baby. Never stops.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Well, you look pretty cool, sir. It looks like you're managing that quite well. Um perhaps something that hasn't been managing stuff quite so well are the precious metals. They've been very, very volatile. Up one day, down the next. But gold uh overall has been holding that 4,000 US dollars per ounce. Copper's well above six dollars per pound, and silver's more or less holding $50 per ounce. John, is this a pattern we can expect to see for the rest of the summer?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Well, you always have lighter volumes in the summer, Paul. This time around is really no difference in July and August, uh, most likely in August. Uh due to the war, it's really hurt sentiment in our sector. And I would imagine that continues into August without a resolution. Um I would say that you know, 50 is that big round number in the sand for silver. And if that does break to the downside, I think it's going to be brief, like a matter of a couple of weeks max. Um, and our target is 47 to 50, come some somewhere in that range. But you know, if you notice, 54 to 55 has been holding, and that's what my partner Don Narrett and I have been talking about through Twitter and through different you know platforms, interviews like this, that silver has held that level, which is good to see. Uh, and gold has held 38 to 3,900, as you pointed out. You said 4,000, but you know, uh that is bullish um because we're still in a bull framework here and the charts aren't broken.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Okay. We've got a bit more of silver to come a little bit later on in our conversation, John. Gold sector leader Newmont reports its June quarter results tonight. John, it's been a um uh an up and down quarter for the gold sector. What are your expectations as we enter earnings season?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how the big caps do. Uh, that would mean Newmont, NEM, and others uh that are holdings within GDX. Um because they had lights out quarters in January and April, right? So here in July, it'll be interesting to see how much the gold price and silver price decline impacted their earnings. Um and you know, some of these companies remember are copper producers, uh, Newmont being one. Copper uh as of yesterday was knocking on an all-time high. So that might help a bit. Um I think what might not help uh and we'll see in the results is is energy prices, right? Because we did see a period of time there with energy spiking, and obviously diesel fuel is a huge input into some of these uh companies' you know, uh bottom lines. So uh all that to say, uh your website uh Kitko put out a really cool article, I think it was last Friday, coming from Bank of America saying that as a basket, stocks like Newmont, Agniko, Beric, etc., the the cash flow, the free cash flow these companies are generating is 10 times higher than it was in COVID in 2020. So when you look at GDX as a price from 2020, let's call it 25 or 30 bucks as an ETF back then coming out of the malaise, uh, you're trading at like 71 or 72 GDX as we record this. I mean, yes, that's up a lot, but it's not up nearly as much as components of the broad market, tech, AI, etc.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Um yeah, I think I agree with you, John. It's gonna be pretty interesting. The average gold price in the June quarter was uh 4,350 US dollars per ounce, give or take. The first quarter average all-in-sustaining cost for the majors was about 1,800 US dollars per ounce. So um, if those things, you know, there's still very, very good margins there. Um, interesting you brought up tech there. Um let's broaden our conversation a little bit. Many commentators say the strength of the tech sector, the magnificent seven stocks in particular, is one of those factors that perhaps has prevented generist investors from cycling into mining stocks despite the uh the improving performance of the miners. Um, but are we starting to see some cracks in that facade? IBM was down 25% in one day last week. Netflix fell 11% on earnings, Tesla missed its earnings. Uh John, what's going on in tech?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Yeah, uh tech is showing cracks. Uh, I think semiconductors are showing cracks. If you look at the Philadelphia Socks Index, SOX, that is one of the things to watch as a barometer for getting short tech. Um, we're not there yet. Um, but if you look at 2000 into 2003 and 08 into 09, looking back at past corrections, the SOX let us down along with the Russell 2000, the uh the illiquid, I would say, ETF that encompanies to 2,000 small cap stocks, of which 900 don't even have earnings. Um so when you look at the IWM or the stocks index declining in a meaningful way, that's an indication that broad tech could be selling off. IBM's 25% decline in one day, Paul. That's their worst day ever. Um this isn't you know the last decade or two ever. Um Tesla this morning gapped down uh 13% TSLA on their earnings. So, you know, we're starting to see some chunky moves to the downside in tech, which I think is going to be bullish for our sector ultimately, because we're going to need to see technology and AI give up a little bit here in order for us to reignite this trade in the miners in you know later this year and into Q1.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

John, I want to focus a little bit more on the Iran conflict. That's revving up again, and that's sent the oil price up to $100 per barrel again. Uh, you mentioned that the oil price, the energy price, you expect that to have an impact on second quarter, June quarter results due to energy costs. What's the broader impact of the Iran conflict on mining stocks? To what extent is it overhanging the sector?

SPEAKER_02 6:46

It's a huge overhang. Um, if you look at March 1st when this started, right? We were, you and I were at PDAC, the largest mining conference ever, uh up in Toronto, right? And that first day, March 2nd, when the market opened after the war was announced, we saw a rally. But March 3rd, we saw what we call a reversal. All of those gains kind of went out the door to the downside. And it really hasn't stopped since. March was an ugly month in our sector. Um, a lot of that was predicated by the war, in my opinion. And then when you look at, if you don't believe me, look at the price action on June 15th and June 16th, three and a half months into the war, when we got the MOU, right? The memorandum of understanding. That MOU basically said to the free world, okay, it's okay to be buying equities again. June 15 and 16 were great days, right? For GDX, GDXJ, the broad market. And then Kevin Warsh from the Fed had his first meeting June 17th and just put cold water all over everything. And you saw the sector decline immediately. So, like the Fed and the war are both impacting our sector right now. In my opinion, the Fed is going to be problematic on the days that it speaks, the days where you see Fed minutes, those are called FOMC minutes. You can look it up on any economic calendar. You have to put these things in your in your book, right? You have to know when these things are happening, Paul's an investor, because they can be really problematic. I mean, Warsh is a new, you know, person on the microphone for the Fed, and he has his own uh designs, as you can see from his uh first meeting, June 17th. So the next one's coming up next week, and all eyes are going to be on that.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

John, do you get a sense that the conflict is escalating? It's getting bigger. We've seen in the past uh few days that the Houthi rebel group in in Yemen they're starting to target shipping in the Red Sea, uh, getting access to the Red Sea, particularly from Saudi Arabia. We also saw there's news this morning, President Trump has signed an agreement with Saudi Arabia that could pave the way to Saudi enriching uranium. Um that, of course, enriching uranium is one of the key catalysts for the US attacks on Iran. It seems the conflict is going to get bigger and perhaps be longer term before it gets smaller and gets resolved.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah. Um I really hope, and I know a lot of your viewers hope that this gets resolved, you know. Um, but hope isn't a strategy. You have to have a strategy here. And the strategy is what I just said. Look at the price action since March 1st and make your own decisions about mining stocks here. Um, and and ask yourself, how long do you think the worst case scenario would be for this war? I don't think it's going through November, Paul, because of the elections. I don't see how we can enter the midterms in November and be, you know, in a massive expanding Middle Eastern war. I just don't see it. Um and I hope I'm right because we'll see a great fall rebound in our sector if that's the case. I think Trump's style is let's pound them with rhetoric and pound them with attacks, but they're not really that serious in terms of attacks. He's not blowing out infrastructure and blowing out the bridges yet and doing the things that he said he was going to do earlier. So that's kind of your sign for escalation, Paul. If you start seeing like full-on whatever, then then you know this could get deeper because um that region has a history of just digging in. This is not Venezuela. This isn't like a tactical, let's get rid of Maduro overnight kind of move. And I think that's where the U.S. has to really take account of what's happening here and say, you know, let's find a middle ground so that we don't see Iran build their nuclear capabilities, but also let's back off a bit here and not get into World War III.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Okay. Well, let's get into some of the potential beneficiaries of this conflict, and that of course is the critical minerals. US President Donald Trump signed an executive order this week to tighten US defense supply chains against tungsten from China and other countries, rejecting lobbyists seeking a prolonged waiver period. January the 1st, 2027 is a third dead firm deadline when the US will no longer allow the import of tungsten from China, Russia, North Korea, or Iran. John, you follow the tungsten sector very, very closely. What will this do? What does this executive order do for the tungsten sector?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Super bullish. I mean, it's unbelievable that more people aren't buying tungsten equities here based on this news, July 20th, or, you know, multiple pieces of information you had leading up to this. This isn't the first, Paul. You and I both know this. I mean, last fall we saw US Exim Bank step up with $100 billion for critical mineral support. And that was followed by Project Vault with another $12 billion of support, right? There's $112 billion of support. And now you're seeing Trump put something like this out even in the middle of doing all the things he's got to do with the war and other things, right? Like this is a major problem for the U.S. that they are addressing, albeit slower than investors like me want to see. Um, I've had two conversations with the U.S. government since June, um, and I plan to have a third. I just sent another email today because they're putting out a white paper on tungsten sometime this summer, and I'm going to be a contributor to that. And I think it's just trying to let people know that we are far, far behind China and many other countries uh in this race. China produces 80 to 81% of all production in tungsten. Um, we just haven't produced anything in the U.S. since 2015, but I think that's going to change. And the reason I say that is I've presented them with a handful of names in the U.S. that they should be taking a stronger look at. They were already aware of Guardian Metal, uh, GMTLF in the States on OTC and GMTL on the big board because they put out a PFS. And by the way, their PFS was lights out. Um they basically said, Paul, you and I follow a lot of Gold and Silver Juniors, right? And you look at what the first year of EBITDA might be, their first year at EBITDA was 348 million US dollars. Like that means a payback at current tungsten prices of about 0.4 years, 0.5 years. Most of these gold and silver juniors are like payback in two years, right? Like this is a quarter of the time. And yet the stock has gone from $3 down to $220 today. It's hilarious. It's like that's good news. Now, in fairness, it's the first time that the company disclosed their capex, right? So when you disclose your capex through a PFS, people get a little freaked out. Um, I think their capex was $289 million, if I remember correctly, not huge. Um, and the U.S. government has already supported them with money last year. So I think people will be surprised. I think the U.S. government's going to help them get that into production. Um, they'll be one of the leaders in the U.S. and Nevada, but there's two others that I'm looking at as well. Uh, Western Star Resources, I've talked on your show about once before. That's WSRIF in the States and WSR in Canada. These guys are in Nevada as well, but they're also in New Mexico through their June acquisition. And they're even more excited about New Mexico than they are in Nevada right now because that particular project had former workings on it back in the 1940s and 50s when the U.S. was producing what much more tungsten through the war effort, of course, right? So they're gonna drill that first and drill roll in their big project in Nevada second, and I think they're gonna do extremely well. And that's the kind of time you want to buy a drill story after they've cashed up, which they already did, and they're just getting their permits lined up right now and the drill rigs assigned. So that's exciting. Um, the next one would be Spartan Metals, uh, SPRMF in the States, and W in in Canada. They're in Nevada as well. Um, huge, huge news in March. They picked up a very big project, um, and they're drilling it right now. So I expect results from both Spartan and Western Star here by next month.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Okay. It does seem with the executive order, John, that uh President Trump is playing hardball with the supply chain, is trying to create a sense of urgency, is trying to restrict things before China uh cuts the US off potentially in the future. Incidentally, I I spoke with um Lewis Black, CEO of Almonte Industries yesterday. He's sitting on $1 billion and he's looking to transact. And he said to me, he's he wants to reach out to explorers and developers of tungsten in the United States, but he said nobody's called him yet. Uh interesting. Um let's move on. Sunshine Silver Mining and Refining announced its first drilling results since completing a $2.3 billion IPO in May with highlights of 15 centimetres, grading 35,000 grams per ton of silver equivalent, including silver, copper, lead, and antimony. A feasibility is due in 2027, with the company looking to develop a silver and critical minerals refining complex in Idaho. That will include the production of antimony, copper, gallium, and germanium. John, 35,000 grams a ton. What about those ultra-high grades?

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Yeah, I mean, amazing numbers. It's not a stock that I follow. Um I know of it, but I don't own it. Um but uh amazing results there, and uh hopefully they get further success. You know, I like Idaho as a state.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Okay, now, John, refining and processing is perhaps more of a bottleneck than critical mineral supply in the United States. Um the US government has been actively looking to promote and stimulate the development of more processing capacity. As mentioned, Sunshine uh is looking at developing processing routes there. Um also in Idaho, America's gold and silver is looking at defining uh developing refining capacity. It does seem that the message is getting through to the mineral sector that processing is something that needs to be developed.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

I agree with that. Um we do own America's gold and silver USAS in the States and USA and Canada. I really like Paul Hewitt as a leader. I think he's a turnaround artist. He's got a lot of skin in the game. He's got 93% of his personal money in the stock. That's as bet about as good as you can get in terms of conviction, right? Um and the stock has had struggles lately, right? I mean, it it was at a dollar, let's call it a dollar last April. Um, it ran up to I think 10, 11 bucks, and now it's trading at four when we started recording this. Um, a lot of these stocks have really been smacked, Paul. And I think we should talk about that um just for a minute here, you know, wherever you'd like in this conversation, about the HUI, you know, going into this week being down 40% since March 1st, and many juniors being down 35 to 65 percent. I mean, this is just a tremendous buying opportunity if you believe what we said at the onset, which is what we're you know, we're still on a bull framework here.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I I would tend to agree with you, John, but um uh investors I would say need, you know, obviously patience, discipline, and uh, you know, perhaps balls of steel to be able to invest and remain calm during what is a very volatile moment of time with, as you say, big swings up and big swings down.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, my heart goes out to investors here, uh, not the ones that chased in January, February, but the ones that um, you know, like look, I mean, you buy something like USAS on the way up, right? And you and you see the chart going up exponentially, you don't expect to get it from you know a decline from $11 to $4. Let's be realistic, right? I mean, show me tech stocks that are down that much. There's there's some, but not many. Um and I think microstrategy, MSTR, is one that comes to mind. I was just doing some some homework on that for a client. Um, the one-year chart on MicroStrategy is $426 high, $100 uh as we opened this morning. So it's it's down significantly. And you're starting to see those cracks that we talked about earlier, Paul, which I think is very encouraging. So you kind of have two thinking, two ways of thinking about this. Are you a value investor? Meaning, would you buy something like USAS or Newmont or Barrick on the dip? Or are you a growth guy that says, oh my gosh, MicroStrategy is at $100, and it's going right back to $426. You have to decide if you're a value or growth manager. That's something you have to figure out for yourself because right now, value investors are going to win going into next year. It doesn't feel like it, but if you ask me who's going to win here, like the NASDAQ and SP or gold and critical minerals, like we talked about, like tungsten, my bet's over here. Gold and tungsten.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Fair enough. John, in such a volatile time where share prices can be hit very severely, um, how you know what's the pain management for an investor? How do you manage that?

SPEAKER_02 20:12

You have to work with people like you work with Rick Rule, and you've been so kind to come to my conferences, Paul, and be a big help over the last three years. You have to work with people like myself or Rick that can help you have the staffs to help you guide you through these times. When I worked for Rick 10 years ago, he would tell me all the time, and I'm sure you've heard this like, hey, if you buy 10 stocks, don't expect all of them to do well. In fact, expect you know half of them to lose 50%. If you go in with that mentality that you could lose a lot of money, then you're better prepared for downturns like this. That said, a correction in our sector is typically 20 to 25%, right? So when you see the HUI down 40%, which is comprised of high quality producing companies, that is scary. There's no question. I mean, I'm not making light of this at all. I get questions every day from clients, and I'm doing a lot of hand holding here in May, June, and July. But I'm doing it because I really care about my client base. I don't want to see people get bucked off the horse here. If we were at $40 silver and $3,200 gold, I'd have a whole nother conversation, Paul, right? Like I when you break support, for me as a chartist, that's that's bad news. And then you have to start selling first and ask questions later. But it seems like this summer, people are just getting tired of the war, the back and forth. You know, uh think about it, Paul. Like back in 1990, like during that Middle Eastern conflict, no one had smartphones, no one, no one had internet. Like, so so basically no one knew what was really going on except for watching their news channel at you know 5 p.m. Um now everyone knows the news every second, and it's detrimental, I think, to a psyche of an investor sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Fair enough. Um, let's carry on with the critical minerals. Sabani Stillwater, a A decision by the US International Trade Commission this week that imports of Russian palladium do not materially impact US pricing or pose an imminent threat to the domestic industry. And that comes after the US Department of Commerce Commerce said in February that Russian palladium had been unfairly subsidised and dumped into the US market at less than fair value. Savannah still would have said that in its view the ITC did not adequately consider certain legal issues which demonstrate that this illegal dumping and subsidization contributed to depressed global palladium prices. John, given the other news we've been talking about so far, it seems as though US policy is perhaps a little bit uncoordinated. It's trying to promote certain things and restrict certain things, but it gives uh, you know, in this instance Russian palladium a bit of a free pass. Is that a fair observation?

SPEAKER_02 22:52

It could be. I don't know too much about the position from the US government. I mean, clearly Sabonier is defending themselves, which I like to see from any mining company. I mean, I will say Sabanier's had operational challenges the last few years. And they've also um uh they're not the most responsive company. I've called them, I've emailed them, I get nothing back the last two years. So, you know, we we've owned the stock heavily over time. We own none of it right now. Um, I think they need to do a better job of you know in Montana where their their project is. Um, and they need to be more communicative with U.S. investors. Um that said, you know, one of our biggest holdings is Stillwater Critical, which is attached to their project in Montana, which has a lot of palladium as well. So I'm a bull on palladium and platinum, uh, which we call PGMs, Paul. Um definitely bullish. Um but you know, Stillwater is trading at 18 and a half cents, and Savani is at nine bucks as of last night. So I'm I'm a value guy. I'm gonna buy the thing that's uh much smaller, and and um it's in the same jurisdiction with the same kind of metallurgy uh that I can see so far. So that one's PGE Z F in the States and PGE in Canada.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Okay, let's move on to precious metals. Nova Gold resources agreed to by Paulson Advisors, 40% interest in the Donlin Gold project in an all-share transaction, with a new company to be created called Nova Gold Corporation, which will be formed and listed on the New York Stock Exchange. Donlin Gold is a development stage project in Alaska with a projected annual production of 1.3 million ounces per year during the first decade of its operation of a 27-year mine life. John, this would seem to be a good deal for Nova Gold, given that it will get Paulson's 40% and give Paulson back a 35% stake in the new co.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah, it sounds like a good deal. I I don't follow either of the two companies, so uh my apologies on that, but um, it sounds like a good deal, and we need to be seeing more MA activity, right? You know, I I think uh companies are really making a mistake here, meaning the larger cap names by not making offers and doing deals with some of the juniors here at these reduced prices.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Well, that's a good segue into the next uh item, which is Barrack Mining, which is to take a 9.9% stake in copper gold explorer Kingfisher Medals through a $20.9 million dollar investment. Kingfisher is exploring the Highway 37 project in the Golden Triangle of British Columbia. Uh John, it's great to see Barrack flexing its wings, flexing its muscles, and supporting a junior. Does the market want to see more of this? Or for Barrack in particular, does the market want it to see to see it do a proper MA transaction?

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Um, I think the market wants to see more Kingfisher type deals, right? Um I mean, as a shareholder, I'm less interested by 9.9% uh uh investments when I'm in a junior. Uh I like to see 19.9% so they don't have a control position where they can't, you know, just oust the CEO and do certain things. Um but I will say that again, uh Barrick, Newmont, Agniko, Alamos, all these guys have to do, they have to look at their pipelines and get an idea of what they need to move forward and keep that production profile up. And they have to be doing deals now, right? And and as a as someone who has a lot of junior holdings, I coach junior CEOs on hey, don't take a 20% deal like probe did. Like, that's not interesting. That is not interesting at all to shareholders, right? Like, we're in a bull market. You need to take 50% plus from these majors. Forget the 20 to 30% stuff. That was a couple of years ago, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

John, it would seem the time is right for the majors to act. They're they're cashed up. Most of them have got more than a billion dollars on their balance sheets. Their PNAV multiple is well in excess of those of their potential targets. They're up at what 1.5, where a lot of the targets are under one. So it seems you know, whether they want to pay cash, whether they want to use paper, it seems the ball is in their court.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Yeah, I mean, it is if you as a junior CEO don't have control over things, and a lot of them don't, you know this, Paul. Um, some of them uh will have 30% plus ownership between the board, insiders, good institutional holders, good retail holders, good financial advisors holding the stock, et cetera. And they can prevent what's called a take under, which we saw with Marathon. I think that was November of 2023 as an example, where again, they weren't interested in moving the project forward themselves and sold to, I believe, Caliber for a really good price. Um, you know, that that helped Caliber, but it really hurt marathon shareholders to sell at that price. And so one of the very first things that we look at is do you have a the the team to build that project and move it forward into production ultimately, or B, are you just interested in a quick flip? That's fine too. If your flip, like I said, is 50% plus. We're not interested in you flipping the asset for 20%.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Okay, the Kingfisher investment we just talked about, that was at a 31% premium to Kingfisher's closing price the day before. Uh John, does this signal that Barrack has dispensed with its zero premium policy for MA?

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Could be. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a smart move. Um you need to pay a reasonable price for assets, you know. I mean, I think people still have a head, you know, a hangover in the in the major sector from 2011-2012, because as you know, Paul, there were tons of deals going down 14 to 15 years ago that probably should have never happened, and they got shellacked in the press for this over and over and over again. So, so you know, maybe they're just hesitant to to move forward, but uh, you know, this is the time you do it. This is a gift. These these prices from the junior market right now are predicated by the by this war. If you look at a chart of your favorite junior stock, 80% of them are down since March 1st. They're not down from other dates.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Thank you, John. Uh, I think another sign of a positive sign is the was the transaction that Agniko Eagle did a couple of months ago in Finland consolidating the the package there. It bought Rupert Resources, it bought Orion Resources, it bought out B2 Gold's participation in the Helmi joint venture. All of those companies received in excess of a 50% premium. So it does seem that uh the big companies are looking at paying bigger premiums and recognize that they can get value far and above that. Um, let's end with a PEA. Going back to silver, New Pacific Medals reported an updated PEA for its Carangas Open Pit Silver project in in Oruro in Bolivia with an increased throughput rate and the inclusion of a gold zone. Carangas will produce 15.5 million ounces per year of silver in years one through eight of a 19-year mine life, which will then drop as uh in years nine through 16 as gold production comes to the fore at a rate of about 143,000 ounces a year. John, um, it sounds like adding a gold component to Carrangus really adds some spice to that project.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Yeah, it's definitely a creative. Um, we owned New Pacific quite heavily, actually, over the years, NEWP. Um, but they we've sold all of our position at higher prices. We're trading at 450 now. We sold above there um because of a couple of things. One is their concentration in Bolivia. Uh, and two, they had two CEOs in the last number of years that are quite young, and I don't really prefer to work with CEOs and own CEOs that have limited experience because you go through times like this, right, Paul? When you are down heavily in in the sector from March 1st, and young people tend to acquiesce more than leaders that have been doing it 30 or 40 years. So I'm not saying that of the current CEO. I don't know him personally, but I'm just saying it's it's you know, experience at the helm is something we definitely look for.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

John, you mentioned uh that you sold out one of the reasons was because of Bolivia. Uh how what's your view on Bolivia at the moment? You got a new president last year, he's more pro-business, he's more uh pro uh investment. How good is Bolivia looking these days, or not as the case may be?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah, I think the whole South Central America situation is looking really interesting right now. I mean, you've seen a turnaround in Peru once we got rid of Castillo. Uh Argentina has completely turned around. I think Colombia is is the next one to turn around. They just had elections a few weeks ago, and that person is very pro-mining. Um, so we're heavily invested in Colombia right now as a country through Daenerys Metals, uh DNRSF in the States, and DMET in Canada. As for Bolivia, you know, I just pulled up some news here. Um they've had some protests going on for like over 50 days, you know. Uh, so there's some economic concerns in the country that's not unusual, and it's you could easily work through it. My point with New Pacific is like when you have all of your projects in one jurisdiction, I've seen that go south in in some you know times of my career when you you really have to diversify into other areas. Like uh I know Silvercorp SVM has a big position in them, right? And when I knew that company, which was one of my oldest holdings, we sold that recently too. Um, but SVM, you know, when I owned it, was heavy, heavy China and cash. And then they started to expand into different jurisdictions because they were getting so much investor feedback from me and others, like, hey, you know, it's great that you're doing well on you know, producing good earnings every quarter and all that, but you're in one country, you know, there's a risk there.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Fair enough. Colombia's new president will take office in about two weeks' time. John, let's close uh with a getting back to Arizona where we started. You've got some conference action coming on in Arizona. What are you planning there?

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah, so my partner Don Durette and I both live here in Arizona, and we've been asked for a couple of years now to do something. So we decided to co-headline an event right before Beaver Creek. Um, we both feel Beaver Creek is the best conference out there. Um and I say that uh in out of respect for them and what they've created for us as a community. You know, I started to attend and speak there, gosh, seven years ago, um, with the exception of the COVID year. And uh Don and I are both first day speakers again this year, which is September 22 through 25. So I encourage people to take a look at that conference on um precious summit.com. Um, our website is uh TopShelfenpartners.com, and you can take a look there on the events tab at our previous six US conferences. Um, but the Arizona one is going to be special because, like I said, we can draw from our investor base here. We've got a good following locally, and we also are you know accessing Don's database for the first time because uh Don doesn't typically speak at conferences, uh he's you know very busy, so I'm I'm very fortunate to have him headlining with me. Um and you know, Paul, you've you've attended a lot of my conferences. You know, we keep it small, 45 to 50 companies maximum. It really gives the investor a good chance to meet the CEO or the number two of the company and to ask those questions that are really pertinent to do I hold this stock, do I add to it, or do I sell it?

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Well, I wish you the best of luck with that, John. Uh that's it for this week. John Fenneck, thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Thanks, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

And of course, if you like what you see, don't forget to hit that subscribe button. I'm Paul Harris, digging deep for Kitco Mining.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

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