Energy markets “anticipatory, not reactive” as geopolitical risk builds | Rick Rule

Rick Rule, President and CEO of Rule Investment Media, joins Kitco Mining’s Digging Deep with Paul Harris to break down escalating geopolitical risk and what it means for energy, commodities, and mining. Rule says recent oil and LNG price moves tied to the Persian Gulf conflict are “anticipatory rather than reactive,” warning that markets are still pricing anticipatory shortages rather than real rationing. If supply disruptions materialize, he said, “the price impact is going to be very different than the price impact that we've seen,” pointing to potential sharp repricing within two or three weeks.

Rule identifies uranium as a key strategic winner as countries prioritize energy security, saying “the real unsung beneficiary will be the nuclear power industry and by proxy the uranium companies.” He also argues resource nationalism and government intervention are likely to continue, with growing pressure on mining assets across key jurisdictions.

In this interview, Rick Rule also discusses:
 • Why energy markets could reprice sharply if real shortages emerge
 • Uranium’s advantage in a shifting global energy system
 • Resource nationalism and government pressure on mining assets
 • G Mining’s $3B deal and why consolidation can still be accretive
 • Rare earth supply chains and rising government-backed capital

Recorded April 22, 2026

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Disclaimer: The views expressed in this podcast are those of the author and may not reflect those of Kitco Metals Inc. The author has made every effort to ensure accuracy of information provided; however, neither Kitco Metals Inc. nor the author can guarantee such accuracy. This article is strictly for informational purposes only. It is not a solicitation to make any exchange in commodities, securities or other financial instruments. Kitco Metals Inc. and the author of this podcast do not accept culpability for losses and/ or damages arising from the use of this publication.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Kitco Mining, Digging Deep with Paul Harris.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello and welcome back to Kitco Mining's Digging Deep with me, Paul Harris, in which we take a closer look at some of the most interesting news items in the mining space. Today is Wednesday, April the 22nd, and joining me is Rick Rule, mining legendary investor. Rick, welcome back to Kitco.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Pleasure to be back with you. I enjoy the sessions with you, and of course, as you know, I'm a KitCo fan, so this will be fun.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Excellent. Uh hopefully so. We've got some really good things to talk about. We last spoke about a month ago, Rick, as the Iran conflict kicked off. Um, in terms of metals and ores, we're still in the conflict, we're still having those impacts. Where are we now, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 0:39

I don't know. I mean, I'm not a foreign policy analyst. I note that the ceasefire has been on again, off again. I note, too, that at least so far, uh not very much material has gone from north of the Straits of Hormous out to markets. I think it's important that uh viewers to this interview understand that, as an example, the oil price increases or the LNG price increases that we've seen as a consequence of the Straits of Hormoose Action are anticipatory rather than reactive. Which is to say, the world is still running on floating inventory and strategic reserves in various countries. If this conflict continues for another two or three weeks, you will see a very different level of pricing. If we actually get to the point where prices reflect real rationing as opposed to anticipatory rationing, the price escalations that we've seen thus far might seem minor. I'm not saying that's going to occur because I don't know what will happen politically or geopolitically. What I do know is that if we run out of floating inventory south of the Straits of Hormous, below the Straits of Hormous, the price impact is going to be very different than the price impact that we've seen. That will extend to helium markets, to uh nitrogen and nitrogenous fertilizer markets to some extent, it may extend uh all the way to things like refined aluminum. Uh, but certainly with regards to oil and liquefied natural gas, people need to understand that the move that we've seen in prices from$65 a barrel uh to$105 a barrel, or now settled out to$90,$95 a barrel, these are anticipatory price moves, not reactive price moves.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Okay, so there is potentially a lot more to come there, and obviously a lot of people are watching this very closely. Uh, you know, I've read a lot of commentary on this. Iran has certainly proven to be more resilient politically and militarily than some uh commentators thought it would be. And in terms of uh the US negotiating Iran away from developing nuclear capability, this conflict seems to have strengthened Iran's bargaining position and weakened that of the US because effectively the weakest, sorry, the US has been unable to forcibly impose its will on Iran. Um and the Iran conflict, I guess, shows that regime train change in Iran seems to be a more distant possibility, but perhaps the unpopularity and the cost of the war in the US perhaps makes regime change in the US more possible. What are your thoughts on that? Well, uh, you know, I've got a question, I know, but there you go.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

I've been a U.S. voter now, uh, or at least I've been entitled to vote in the U.S. for 50 years. Uh there's been one mainstream candidate in 50 years that I voted for, and I made a mistake voting for him. Um I I mean I think with regards to regime change, it always should begin at home. Uh while I find the Iranian regime odious, I also understand uh that that is a matter for the Iranian people to decide, not for me to decide. Uh and while I find you know, I I find the whole conflict uh reprehensible. I'm not a geopolitical analyst. Uh I I believe that Mr. Trump has domestic political troubles irrespective of Iran, but I think that Iran might in the near term at least uh be the pin that breaks the bubble. Um I I don't know about the vast majority of Americans. It was very difficult for me to believe that he had the courage, if that's the right phrase, I'm tempted to say the stupidity, uh, to engage in this conflict, particularly when there were so many other irons in the fire that he had. Um what he did is done. Uh I understand the rationale, I understand the political rationale, uh, the implication that part of U.S. policy was to defend the State of Israel uh from what was considered to be an existential threat. I get all that. Um at least in the near term, uh that effort was a failure. Uh and you know, I I think there's lots of implications around this, and I don't think, unfortunately, that we'll be as good at anticipating them as ultimately we will be at chronicling them. Uh one of the things I'd like to point out, Paul, and I think I pointed this out to you in private conversation, is that in at least in terms of extractive industries, one of the winners uh will be uranium. Uh it is very clear that one outcome of this struggle is that countries that are uh net importers of energy will increasingly need to rely on the one energy fuel that's dense enough that you can store uh enough material to fuel your country for five or six years in a small warehouse. Students of history will remember that the construction of the Japanese nuclear fleet and to a lesser extent the French nuclear fleet occurred as a consequence of the Arab embargo in the early part of the decade of the 1970s. The strategic, the proponents of the strategic argument for nuclear power got a very strong wake-up call uh in the last four or five weeks. And the real unsung beneficiary, if there's a beneficiary at all of this conflict, will be the nuclear power industry and by proxy the uranium companies.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Exactly. And uh Rick, I understand that um you're you and I, we're we're gonna be doing a deeper dive into the uranium space through your rural investment newsletter at some point in the not too distant future. Um we've got a lot to talk about today, so we're gonna move on. And uh not all of you know some very positive news out there, but uh some very negative news out there as well. Uh Bikino Faso, for example, is demanding the right to own 40% of West African Resources Sambrato Gold Mine. They already have a 15% free carry there, and they're demanding the ability to purchase an additional 25%. Um, Rick, I guess the good news here is that the government seems to have a pay, not take model as it seeks to increase its uh its ownership there. Um, you know, to what extent do you think this will embolden governments in other countries to look to increase asset ownership? And I want to put this in context of news out today that uh La Rioja Province in Argentina has its hand out closing the road to the Vicunya project because it doesn't get a share of the pie. The Vicuna project is mainly in San Juan, Argentina. Um, how do you see resource nationalism or things of this nature developing and progressing as time goes on?

SPEAKER_02 7:45

That could be the whole interview. I'll try to keep it brief. Uh elections were described once by H. L. Mencken as advanced auctions of stolen property. Government sees their job as stealing assets from one group of constituents to deliver benefits to their own supporters. That's the nature of government. Their real job, uh, if you strip it down, it's to steal. Um that's what they're asked to do. Uh to the extent that we accept that reality as natural resource investors, what comes to mind then is payment. Do we get compensated for the risk we took? Does the payment uh involve a reasonable assessment of net present value? And what's the form of payment? If the Burkina government decides to pay for that deposit as an example in long-dated Burkina Faso denominated bonds, uh that's the equivalent of true theft. Uh if by contrast they were to pay a PV8 with some makeup for the tail of the deposit after the net present value has subsided, uh. And they were to pay in either cash or in debt denominated in a real currency, uh that might be different. With regards to the efficacy of resource nationalism, one needs to ask themselves how many circumstances are there where governments acted intelligently uh in private sector activities? I'm myself, uh I have a good memory of the round of resource nationalism that happened as a consequence of the increased natural resource prices in the 1970s. Uh I watched Jekomen uh have the unlikely ability to wreck the Congolese copper industry. I watched ZCCM uh do the same for Zambian. I mean, it took a real, real, real skill. Probably only a government could wreck industries as robust as Central African copper. Uh I watched the demise of the Venezuelan and Mexican petroleum industries through Petavesa and Paymex in particular, with the cash flow from those businesses usurped to support politically expedient domestic spending programs. Uh I look with some chagrin uh at the balance sheet and the deferred uh capital requirements of Codelco, probably the most successful state-owned firm in resource history. So, in the first instance, I think that resource nationalism is morally wrong. Uh, I also think it's stupid from a utilitarian point of view. But what I think doesn't matter, uh, it's going to occur if you assume that governments are elected, at least in a democracy, uh, because the constituents of one party believe that they can use the power of government to enforce their will. Uh and uh because theft, where you're not the victim, but rather the beneficiary, is popular, we can expect it to continue.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Thank you, Rick. Um interesting that you mentioned Chile State Copper Company Codelco there. Last week I was at the 2026 CIU World Copper Congress, and during the the event, uh Codelco's chair, Maximo Pacheco, spoke about these kinds of things, and he highlighted the fact that Codelco now has 18 joint ventures with private sector companies, in which Codelco is the junior partner. 15 of those have been created within the last two years. So it seems Codelco is perhaps learning that lesson and that it's better to hitch its wagon to the private sector company developers rather than look to do things itself. The the government of Antonio Cast is also uh stressing this that Codelco needs to do more with the private sector. With um the growing wave of resource nationalism around the world, uh, I guess one of the implications for this, Rick, is the potential for more MA in Canada, the US, and maybe even Guyana, where we're going to now because Gmining Ventures uh announced it's to acquire G2 goldfields in a$3 billion Canadian all-stock deal at a 72% premium to consolidate uh a large and low-cost gold district, adding G2's Okogani project to its Oco West mine development. It said it creates the potential to have a mine that can produce more than 500,000 ounces a year. This deal will unlock more than$1 billion of initial capital cost synergies and forego about$850 million of capital costs that would otherwise have been required to construct a standalone project at G2. Uh, the combined projects host almost 10 million ounces at the moment. Rick, this deal has been a no-brainer for years, um, but it's obviously finally just happened. What was the trigger, perhaps, the fact that G2 was about to start developing a feasibility study using Stracon rather than G mining services?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

I think that the um I think that the timing was inevitable, uh, and I think that the transaction involved common sense. The Gignac family uh, on behalf of shareholders, agreed to pay a premium price for a premium asset. The G2 management team, I think, did a wonderful job uh conducting negotiations where there was one logical bidder. Um, it's interesting that the synergies, which you accurately identified in the project, are so extraordinary, that the bidder could pay a 72% premium and that the acquisition would still be accretive on a per share basis to G mining shareholders. I think it's important to note, too, that uh in addition to the fact that G mining was the logical acquirer given the fact that this district only needs one processing facility. But I think the other thing that this points to, uh, and this came out in the analyst call, is the absolute certainty that there is exploration and development upside on both sides of the line, which is to say, while the combined project may be an 8.5 million ounce project at present, which you highlighted with your suggestion that it could produce 500,000 ounces a year, uh, my suspicion is that when the dust settles, this is a 10 or 12 or maybe even 15 million ounce district. Uh people who are listening to you and I talk may understand that the nature of these deposits is that companies build them when they can, when they've drilled off enough reserves and resources that they can amortize the capital cost of construction, uh, recoup capital and get a reasonable return on capital employed, they stop drilling. You don't often drill off reserves that you're gonna produce 20 years from now because they don't have a net present value. That notwithstanding, uh these deposits, these very large deposits, invariably get bigger. Uh, and they're gonna get bigger on both sides of the border. So, what was an 8.5 million ounce acquisition? Likely was a 10 or 12 or 15 million ounce acquisition.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Okay. Now, Rick, um, I watched one of your other VIN video interviews today, this morning, that has just been published. And during that, you said that the big gold miners need to take action today, and that means MA. With um G mining consolidating this district for a potential 500,000 ounce producer, when this transaction with G2 Goldfield is closed, does that put G mining in play for one of the big guys? All the big guys would love a 500,000 ounce a year producer.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

I think it might. Uh G mining is unique in that they have a defensible competitive advantage. The Gignac's family advantage is that they have been for 35 years building large gold mines in orogenic systems in tropical high rainfall environments. They did it for the Londines in Ecuador. Uh, they did it going way back uh in Cambiore and IM Gold, they've done it now in G mining. So they are uniquely competitive in the Guiana shield, uniquely competitive in Brazil. Uh they might, if they chose to be, uh utilize that advantage in Central Africa as an example, although they don't need to. Uh it's worthy to note that after they get done building uh the Guyanese asset, uh, there's another asset in Guiana which might be amenable to what they do, and they have a development stage asset in Brazil. Would the whole circumstance be attractive to somebody else? Or really allowing yourself to dream uh would the Londine family, who has a very high regard for the gignacs as a consequence of uh the gignacks demonstrated competence in Fruta del Norte in Ecuador, consider combining Londine mining, another family-controlled firm, with G mining. Um the shareholders of G mining are in a lovely circumstance, which is to say that production growth for five to seven years is assured, without them doing anything else, the company is also on extraordinarily firm financial footing, uh, which means that should they want to acquire somebody or should they require capital for an upgrade, they won't have to go to market. Uh they'll just be able to look in their bank account. So the G mining shareholders are in a wonderful circumstance where the next five, seven, probably ten years, are baked in the cake and where they have the ability to grow, where they have the opportunity. But uh the family that runs the thing, the Geniac family, while they think in generational terms, uh I suspect if the right offer came, uh would have to consider selling.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Now, Rick, um you you said uh Londine mining, but um, do you mean Londine gold?

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Landine gold. I'm very sorry, Paul. You're correct. Absolutely correct. Uh Londine gold, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, it'd be uh an interesting family negotiation, or two families getting together. Yeah. Another node brain of deal and one that's been executed with some style uh was Agniko Eagle Mines, which is to consolidate gold development properties in the central Lapland Greenstone Belt of Northern Finland through 3.5 billion Canadian dollars worth of deals to acquire Rupert resources, Orion or Orion resources, and a JV interest held by B2 Gold to establish a pathway to develop 500,000 ounces a year production hub. Um it's paying a 67% premium for Rupert in an all-stock deal and 46% premium for Orion or Orion in an all-cash deal. Um Rick, um this deal is another no-brainer that's been brewing for quite a while. Um it seems that Agniko perhaps got fed up with the squabbling between Rupert and Orion and their inability to reach terms to consolidate Ikari with Helmi, and they've come in and basically just done it all for themselves all themselves.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

I haven't had the opportunity to uh talk to Omar Aljundi since the transaction. He's been a busy guy. Uh you will recall, however, Paul, that uh I had an in-depth conversation with him at the Natural Resources Investment Symposium uh in Botan now almost a year ago. And this is very consistent uh with AgNico Eagle's growth strategy, which is to say invest in assets, pay a full price for assets, where it where it enables AgNico Eagle to leverage existing assets they have in the area and where they think that the district inevitably will grow. Again, you have a circumstance where the acquirer paid what is on the face of it a very full price. I have watched Agneco Eagle now for 45 years, and they tend to be extremely astute acquirers. They regard themselves as a construction company as much as a mining company, and it's very obvious that they see growth in the district. Uh they have said for many years that they wouldn't acquire at all for non-strategic purposes. In other words, they wouldn't acquire to grow. Uh and they have also said that every acquisition that they make has to meet the hurdle that it's a more efficient use of capital than buying back their own shares. They operate uh Agniko Eagle on a per share basis, uh, which gives me some confidence. I have not had the opportunity to talk to Amar Aljundi on a specific basis around this acquisition, nor did I attend the conference call. So I'm a little less informed on this acquisition than I was on the G mining G2 transaction.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

And uh I understand that AgNico Eagle will be one of the participating companies in the 2026 uh rural symposium in Boccaraton in the first week of July. So hopefully we'll find out more from Amar um at that event. Um, sticking with the large gold MA theme, Barrack Mining has uh said recently that it would get back onto the MA train to try and recover some of the ground it has lost to companies such as Agneco, Eagle Mines, and Newmont in recent years. Um Rick, again, going back to your um the comment I picked up on on one of your other videos that big gold miners need to take action, and that means MA. What kind of MA target would move the needle for Barrick? Would that be gobbling up somebody like Kim Ross Gold?

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Uh I don't know the answer to that. Uh Barrick's acquisition track record has been somewhat less sterling. Uh so that'll be interesting to watch. The company's competitive advantage until fairly recently was Mark Bristow's acumen in West Africa. That's clearly gone. The most obvious transaction for Berwick, I think, is going to be fairly tough to effect. The most obvious transaction would be to combine their North American assets with Newman's North American assets and perhaps sell off the rest of Berwick. A Nevada-focused super major where you combined New Monts assets with Berwick's assets would give you tremendous operational synergy, and the market would regard it as a highly, highly, highly attractive asset that would afford Berwick the ability, if they wanted to, to sell off all the rest of the assets that they have on a global basis, including perhaps Pueblo Viejo. I don't think that that's what Berwick intends to do, nor do I believe that that's what Newmont intends to do. I think that the management teams of both companies understand that in a transaction like that, one side or the other would be the losers. And for reasons no more altruistic than personal greed and larceny, uh, I don't think that you see that transaction occur. But that would be the most intelligent transaction. You know, this is clearly a company in transition. One looks at their existing assets outside of uh Nevada, and one wonders where the synergistic acquisitions are. I mean, certainly the companies producing facilities in West Africa are substantial enough that if they were to proceed on the Agnico-Eagle theorem, where you looked at assets that are more economic combined with your own than there would be on a standalone basis, that there are some opportunities there. The capital markets do not like Berwick's focus on West Africa or other emerging countries. So one wonders about their cost of capital. The second thing one wonders is that Berwick trades on lower market multiples than Newmont. Uh, and if Berwick uh benchmarks their merger and acquisition strategy uh against the metric that AgNico Eagle uses, which is to say retiring their own capital, uh, they're gonna be challenged uh in the acquisition space given their own valuations.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Thank you, Rick. Um it'd be interesting to see how this folds out uh works out. Uh Barraque is gonna proceed with uh spinning out its North American assets. Uh, I've been reading that uh they're potentially valued at$60 billion, given that the overall company has a market capitation capitalization of$72 billion. That shows uh how how how poorly perhaps the market values everything else in Barrack outside of North America. Um, another big name in the MA space, making waves in the MA space this week, was Samic Davis and his Vision Blue Resources, who said that portfolio company Sarah Verdi agreed to a 2.8 billion US dollar combination with USA Rare Earth to create a geographically diversified and integrated mind-to-magnet producer of rare earth elements outside of China. Rick, um, how important is this deal in the supply chain it hopes or claims to be able to put in place?

SPEAKER_02 25:24

I think it's potentially quite important. I think it it it uh it speaks to a new geopolitical reality too, and I don't want to make this whole discussion about politics. Uh the geopolitical tensions around the world, and I don't just mean China against the rest of the world. I mean the formation of trading blocs, the Japanese, the Europeans, the North Americans, uh, means that increasingly, whether there should be or not, there's going to be government involvement in the mining business. And government involvement uh, while problematic, has the ability to lower the cost of capital of mining companies. The mining business, as you know, Paul loves dumb money. And there's no money in the world as dumb as governments. Uh and I suspect that in as politically charged a topic uh as strategic materials, that the government will be particularly generous. Uh, and I think that McDavis in particular is smart enough to understand that there's a new potential shareholder on the side who is unusually generous. Uh I note the Reagan the Reagan, the uh Trump administration's uh purchase of uh equity in Mountain Pass, which, if my memory serves me well, has been bankrupt three times in my career.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Okay, um I think it's been insolvent more times than that, actually, Rick. But your point is well made. USA rare earths does seem to be leveraging its highly, very highly valued paper to buy Brazil's only operating rare earth mine. Um given that this is putting quite a large valuation on Cerro Verde, what will this do for valuations of other rare earth assets in Brazil and indeed elsewhere?

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Yeah, I was gonna say uh you need to include the rest of the world, probably. You know, uh we haven't, well, first of all, rare earths aren't rare. Uh we haven't found them because we haven't looked for them, and we haven't looked for them because China produced them so efficiently. But production costs are rising very rapidly in China. Uh the environmental devastation done by rare earth productions in Western China has been so extraordinary that it's become unacceptable both to the Chinese people and Chinese government. So the pricing umbrella that existed in the rare earth business was starting to go away even before geopolitical concerns. It's important to understand that. Uh looking for rare earths where, first of all, the costs are rising, but also where the utilization is expanding incredibly rapidly means that we're going to find more. That's going to happen. Brazil, uh, I suspect is the world leader in non-Chinese sourced resource. There's a lot of work that needs to be done in those deposits in terms of process, in terms of metallurgy. But the idea that the United States government would be interested in building an integrated supply chain around rare earths to rival or at least to insulate U.S. manufacturers from a Chinese monopoly, seems like a certainty. And the Axis, which is to say Brazil for production and the U.S. Gulf Coast as an example for processing, seems like uh a no-brainer. As you know, I uh own three uh nascent uh Brazilian uh rare earth deposits, and I look at this circumstance with some favor. Uh I think that the Brazilian government uh will also, although I do believe that Lula, the president of Brazil, uh has some aspirations to steal more of the benefit of rare earths, uh, I do believe that he has no second choice fiscally than to do whatever he can to develop uh the deposits uh in the interest of Brazil.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Thank you, Rick. Um interesting that in Brazil um the vast majority of the exploration companies are Australian ASX companies. Um continuing with the rare earth lines, Rick, I spoke to Steve Schoffsdor this week, who is heading Sprot's new Rare Earth ETF. He said there's considerable investor appetite to invest in rare earths, and part of the reason for the ETF is that, as I said, a lot of the companies are Australian listed, which makes it perhaps sometimes difficult or impossible for US investors to invest in. But it's interesting that there is enough demand to justify and sustain an ETF. Rick, what does this perhaps say uh about the the increasing maturity or raising the bar in the rare sector? It seems to be coming out of the shadows from being a very small thing that very few people know about, really getting into the mainstream now.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

I think it's true. I think it also uh speaks to the the lead that the Australian investment community has shown in resources. Australia has been a resource-centric economy for a very long time. And the fact that the Australians, through Linus and others, uh have been leaders in rare earth exploration and rare earth technology is no accident. Uh they came first and they've done a good job. So their capital markets uh have at least a 10-year lead time relative to Americans. I think Sprott is to be construct uh is to be uh praised for bringing to market an investment product uh designed specifically for U.S. investors to take advantage of this theme. Uh, and unlike the Van Eck product, uh which by the way is a good product too, uh, that is more general, the Sprat product is very much around the theme of ex-China rare earths, uh, and I think it will find good market demand. I would tell people listening to this uh broadcast, by the way, that if your broker can't assist you in buying or selling Australian stocks, that you should fire that broker. Uh there is no reason why, as an American, as an example, you can't go to Sprout Private Wealth, or if you're a global investor, that you can't go to interactive brokers. The truth is that the uh major uh wealth managers worldwide uh are often either lazy or greedy, which is to say they don't develop a trading capability in global stocks because they're too lazy, or they don't do it because they want to support the house issues. Uh those issues aren't your issues. If your broker can't buy you Australian stocks, if they can't buy you Eurozone stocks, if they can't buy you Hog Kong stocks, fire your broker.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Fair enough. Uh I want to finish our conversation today, Rick, um, talking about another company that is going to be attending the symposium, and that is Seabridge Gold, which has reported a maiden inferred resource for the SNP North deposit uh of 9.2 million ounces of gold, 28.3 million ounces of silver, and 923 pounds of copper. It's also renamed the project The Bronson Corridor. However, uh, I want to talk more broadly about uh Seabridge because there's been other news items related to the company as well. It's pushed for the permits to dig tunnels to its giant KSM project are being delayed until the miners' court fight with neighbour Tudigold is resolved. The regulators have said it wants that resolved before it progresses with the permit application. Um, and another bit of bad news for the company has come out that consultants who used to work for Seabridge are supposedly now working for the government, helping to write its permits, which suggests there's some possible uh conflicts there. Um, Rick, a lot going on at Seabridge Gold at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Uh this is going to be very interesting to watch. Uh, my understanding, and it's incomplete. I don't want to attribute this to Rudy Franck. Uh, but I think that the dispute between Tudor and Seabridge is probably best moderated by the hosts, by the tall 10. Uh there is nobody who has more incentive to see KSM uh produce than the indigenous hosts. Uh and uh I think that both Seabridge and Tudor are uh unusually reliant on the goodwill of the hosts. And from the host's viewpoint, uh the accretion of net present value from development that would accrue to the relatively small number uh of uh indigenous host inhabitants means that nobody has as much incentive to arbitrate this dispute, nor as much knowledge, frankly, as the hosts. And I think what you're going to see is uh some work behind the scenes, tripartite work, uh between, in particular, the Taltan, uh, but also the other uh Native groups uh and nation's royalty to resolve that part of the dispute. It's important to note that uh Seabridge has acted in good faith with regard to the Taltan and the BC government by uh achieving substantial start status, which is to say they have uh invested over the course of time almost a billion dollars in the deposit, including$350 million in pre-works. So I would suggest that the goodwill associated with Seabridge in the local community has been established. Uh I understand certainly the obligation of the tutor management to defend their shareholders' interests, should there be any. Uh, and I think that the right way to settle this uh would be outside the courts uh with the concurrence uh of the indigenous hosts. With regards to the SNP deposit, that uh I mean, I knew there was mineralization there. I was first in SNP, um, if my memory serves me well, in 1984 with Ron Netolitzki. Uh and it's uh uh it's a wonderful piece of real estate. Uh I I will say that the size of the resource uh you know was uh was a pleasant surprise to me. Uh I haven't looked in detail uh at the deposit in terms of how much of that deposit would theoretically report to a mine, but it's certainly an encouraging start.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Well, let's hope this uh dispute is resolved quickly and promptly to the benefit of any of everyone. Um a lot riding on this uh for Seabridge as well, because Seabridge needs a partner to develop the massive KSM project, and obviously it's hard to see a partner coming on board while a dispute is active. Um, Rick, one of those sort of end things there. Um your symposium is on the 6th to the 10th of July. Uh Kitco is going to be there. Um, looking forward to that. Um, what's one thing you're really looking forward to about your event this year?

SPEAKER_02 36:30

It's tough to specify one thing. You know, Paul, we've done that uh conference now for some people tell me 30 years. Uh my memory doesn't go back that far. But if you do something for 30 years and you make it a little bit better every year, you end up making it pretty good. Uh we've attracted uh a lot of participants in the conference, uh KitCo included, which I'm very proud of. But the whole range of what we do at the conference is very different than other conferences. We have big picture thinkers that tell you the way the world really is, not the way that the CBC or Fox would have you believe it was. That's important. Last year we had David Stockman, you'll remember, uh, who had been the uh director of the Office of Management and Budget under Reagan, telling us why Doge would fail. Uh boy was he right. Um So we do that well. Uh after we've established a worldview that allows you to understand the background of resource investing, we have analysts and portfolio managers who have made money over 40 years in resources through bull markets and bear markets, not Johnny Cum lately newsletter writers, you know, who've established whatever reputation they might have in the last 12 to 18 months. That's important. We have the living legends, we have the Robert Friedlands and the Bob Quartermains and the Ross Beatties and the those people who get on stage and tell you how they built multi-billion dollar natural resource companies from scratch, and how you can identify the$10 million company that's going to become a$2 billion company, always the most popular feature of the conference. In addition, Paul, as you know, uh every single uh issuer company at the conference has to be owned in the organizers' accounts. Uh at most conferences, the qualification to be an exhibitor is a check that caches. At our conference, we have to know you well enough that we own you. And I need to, frankly, uh brag on our live stream. We worked for five years bringing the conference to people who can't be at the conference physically. Last year, 1,400 people enjoyed the conference from 33 foreign countries. Uh we have a commentator, a person who is in charge of bringing the live conference, the live stream, named Paul Harris. I'm extremely proud of uh Paul's accomplishment, and I'm delighted to have Kitko uh as a joint venture partner in that endeavor. We believe that the live stream audience this year will exceed 3,000 people. And it's important that those people understand that they are now an integral part of the conference. In other words, the conference programming has been designed in part to enhance the experience of the live stream audience that can't be there personally. Unlike any other investment conference that I know of in the world, our conference comes with an ironclad money-back guarantee. Whether you attend live, by the way, the live seats are sold out, or live stream, uh two things. You have access to the recordings of the conference, which you will need, and you have a complete money-back guarantee. If you think for any reason that we didn't earn the tuition that we charged you, simply let us know, and we will refund your attendance. I'm delighted to say too, in 30 years of money-back guarantees, we've had to refund about one-tenth of one percent of the tuitions we've charged. But that guarantee is your guarantee that we've spent a lot of time on content.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Well, I'm really looking forward to the event, Rick, and engaging with some of the amazing panel of uh macro and company speakers that you've programmed for your live stream audience. Um, that's it for this week. Thank you very much for joining me again.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Thank you, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

And for those of our viewers, if you like what you see, don't forget to hit that subscribe button. I'm Paul Harris, digging deep for Kitco Mining.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

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